乐播传媒

Five years ago, a 乐播传媒 student made Dana Professor of Anthropology Loring Danforth an offer he couldn鈥檛 refuse: Would he be interested in leading a Short Term course to Saudi Arabia?

鈥淚 was stunned,鈥� recalls Danforth.

Few people get to visit Saudi Arabia, let alone study there. For one, the country does not issue tourist visas, the Lonely Planet calling it 鈥渙ne of the most difficult places on Earth to visit.鈥�

Meanwhile, the U.S. State Department routinely warns visitors of the 鈥渙ngoing security threat due to the continued presence of terrorist groups.鈥�

Against that backdrop, the 乐播传媒 trip to Saudi Arabia that Danforth and his 16 students took in the spring of 2012 enjoyed amazing access facilitated by the student who made the offer to Danforth, Leena Nasser 鈥�12, a politics major from Dhahran, whose father works for a multinational corporation in Saudi Arabia.

The 乐播传媒 group got to visit with academic and religious leaders; journalists, artists, and human rights activists; and top-level executives with the national oil company, Saudi Aramco.

A few weeks after the trip, the school year was over, and Danforth was poised to embark on a sabbatical-year research project in Greece, a country whose culture and history had yielded four scholarly books over Danforth鈥檚 career.

But as he tried to start his intended project 鈥� studying a transborder national park in northern Greece 鈥� he felt a professional calling to “prove worthy鈥� of the 鈥減riceless gift鈥� of the experience in Saudi Arabia.

So he wrote a book, Crossing the Kingdom: Portraits of Saudi Arabia (University of California Press, 2016), a collection of essays on Saudi topics with chapter titles such as 鈥淩oads of Arabia: Archaeology in Service to the Kingdom,鈥� 鈥淒riving While Female: Protesting the Ban on Women Driving,鈥� and 鈥淪audi Modern: Art on the Edge.鈥�

(In fact, Danforth is using his experience with Saudi modern art to co-curate, with director Dan Mills, the , opening at the 乐播传媒 Museum of Art in October.)

Here鈥檚 what Danforth said about a book whose major goal is to challenge 鈥渄estructive Orientalist stereotypes of Saudi Arabia by offering alternative images of its people, their society, and their culture.鈥�

Who should read this book?

Everybody who is interested in Islam. Everybody who is interested in the Near East. Everybody who is interested in Saudi Arabia and the Arabian Peninsula.

As you put off the Greek project to write this book, who was your sounding board?

Nobody. We had just gotten back from Saudi Arabia. There was graduation, and I鈥檇 moved over to Frye Street, where my office would be for my sabbatical. I鈥檓 thinking, 鈥淥kay, now I can start working鈥� on the Greek project. But the Saudi stuff was just so fresh and interesting.

I didn鈥檛 fully understand it. I couldn鈥檛 process it. And I felt it was so valuable and interesting that I couldn鈥檛 let it go. So I figured, 鈥淥kay I鈥檒l try to write a New Yorker-style article. I started one and finished it. Then wrote another. Then I thought, 鈥淢aybe I have a book.鈥�

This is not a traditional academic monograph. When I spoke to a publisher about it, I said, 鈥淚t鈥檚 a good thing I didn鈥檛 need this book to get tenure.鈥� And he said, 鈥淚f you鈥檇 needed this book to get tenure you wouldn鈥檛 have written it.鈥� Which is unfortunately true, in a way.

There鈥檚 a line in your introduction that says, 鈥淎s an anthropologist, I felt an obligation to prove worthy of this opportunity.鈥� Why the qualifier 鈥渁s an anthropologist?鈥�

The experience was so quintessentially anthropological: where you go to another culture and you鈥檙e talking to people and learning about their culture.

One of the reviewers said, basically, 鈥淵ou think you can visit Saudi Arabia for a month and write a book?鈥� But that鈥檚 what a writer like Jane Kramer of The New Yorker does. She once visited Greece for a week, wrote an article for The New Yorker, and it was very good. She got it.

The issue is not how much time you spend in a country. It鈥檚 the quality of what you have to say.

What was it like being a teacher, a 乐播传媒 representative, and a researcher all in a single trip?

I was most aware of juggling all those roles when we walked into an government office, say the Ministry of Education, and it was my job to hand out some 乐播传媒 gear and say, 鈥淗ere we are from 乐播传媒, and it鈥檚 a pleasure to be here.鈥�

The students were watching me, and I was modeling diplomacy. But I wanted to give them the opportunity to ask questions. And I had questions myself.

I am a better teacher because I am a scholar. But the reverse is not always true.

It was just an unbelievable experience, shifting from spending an hour talking with students in the evening about what we learned, then going back to my room and scribbling notes myself.

I would try to get them to take notes at the level at which I did. They鈥檇 ask, 鈥淒o we have to write all the time?鈥� And I鈥檇 say, 鈥淵es, you have to write all the time.鈥�

We say that teaching and research are in balance at 乐播传媒. But in terms of your experience in Saudi Arabia, were they integrated?

For 40 years I鈥檝e been totally committed to the balance of teaching and scholarship that exists at 乐播传媒. But often at an individual level, hour by hour and week by week, there鈥檚 a tension between the two.

I am a better teacher because I am a scholar. But the reverse is not always true. I can鈥檛 take 乐播传媒 students to Greece 鈥� my research is just not set up to have students next to me as I鈥檓 trying to establish rapport with an elderly Greek woman.

But the Saudi Arabia trip was a total synthesis of the two, where I was there with 16 students teaching a course, and that experience was also giving me a chance to do fieldwork.

You said your skills as an ethnographer and writer allow you to share new insights in the Saudi culture. What are the skills?

Part of doing fieldwork 鈥� interviewing people and observing things 鈥� is just raw commitment. Everything that happens and everything people say, you just write it down as carefully and as fully and as accurately as you can.

Another really important part of it is an eye for detail. In a hotel, I saw a laundry slip that had the most amazing list of the kinds of clothing worn by the people who stayed there 鈥� from 1950s American styles to South Asian clothes to Arab clothes, and I just said to myself, 鈥淭he whole world is in this list.鈥�

It鈥檚 the ability to notice things that are revealing and interesting.

You quote anthropologist Clifford Geertz, who said that good interpretive anthropology means making 鈥渟mall facts speak to large issues.鈥� Isn鈥檛 there a chance that a broad judgment extrapolated from small facts can be quite wrong?

Yes. An Orientalist could take a concrete fact, that 15 of the 19 terrorists on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, and go off and say it鈥檚 an evil country. Being concrete doesn鈥檛 necessarily lead to avoiding negative generalizations.

Whatever issue you are trying to speak to, you can find examples that support it and you can find examples that don鈥檛 support it. Either way, you need the ability to maintain that the complexity of the world throughout your interpretation.

Geertz uses the phrase 鈥渢hick description鈥� to describe this kind of interpretive anthropology. For example, you might ask, 鈥淲hat鈥檚 the point of Hamlet?鈥� Well, it has lots of points, and to make sense of it as a whole means I have to show you the complexity, depth, and meaning of the text.

That鈥檚 true whether it鈥檚 the text of Hamlet or a Greek ritual. The situation at hand is always more complex than people think. And often that鈥檚 what good anthropology ends up arguing.

How did your group park their Western perspectives when looking at Saudi Arabia?

Well, our group wasn鈥檛 all Western. We had students from Lithuania, Nepal, China, as well as Saudi Arabia itself.

We were in a hotel and some Chinese businessmen arrived. I said to the Chinese student, 鈥淲hy don鈥檛 you talk to them?鈥� She said, 鈥淚n China, you can鈥檛 just go up and start talking to people.鈥� I said, 鈥淲e鈥檙e not in China. Go talk to them.鈥�

But it鈥檚 totally accurate that we have assumptions that come from our own cultural background, and we have to bracket those, put those aside, and then decide whether they鈥檙e relevant.

We had an encounter with a Saudi woman who argued that homosexuality is evil. Sodom and Gomorrah being buried in lava showed that God punished homosexuality.

My feeling is that if you aren鈥檛 going to talk to people that you disagree with, then you might just as well stay home.

Our students 鈥� one with two mothers and another whose uncle is gay and had just adopted a child with his partner 鈥� were just shaking listening to this stuff. In that situation, do you say, 鈥淥h, homophobia. Gee, how interesting鈥�? Or do you say, 鈥淚 disagree with that鈥�?

The students expressed their disagreement politely and respectfully. One was in tears afterwards, fearing she鈥檇 insulted the woman. I said, 鈥淣o, you spoke up and expressed your opinion.鈥�

My feeling is that if you aren鈥檛 going to talk to people that you disagree with, then you might just as well stay home. But it鈥檚 a challenge to navigate this path, when to be relativistic and when to say, 鈥淭his is not how I would want my country run.鈥�

You describe how you feel when you experience a new culture, calling it almost like a secular conversion experience. Is it what the Greek philosophers might鈥檝e called enthusiasmos?

Enthusiasmos: 鈥淕od in you.鈥� Like spirit possession. Yes. It鈥檚 a motivator. You have this overwhelmingly powerful experience 鈥� what are you going to do with it? You can鈥檛 just forget about it or let it pass or ignore it. You want to do something worthwhile with it or share it.

In a note to your students at the end of the course, you said the experience in Saudi Arabia might prove to be 鈥渋neffable鈥� 鈥� inexpressible.

I told them that they do not have to be able to share the experience. A transcendent, ineffable experience can enrich your life. I told them to hold on to it as long as they can.

It鈥檚 really hard to share such an experience with somebody who wasn鈥檛 there. People are going to say, 鈥淗ow was Saudi Arabia?鈥� And you鈥檙e going to want to talk for an hour, and they鈥檙e going to say, 鈥淪o what happened at the faculty meeting yesterday?鈥�

But from a teaching perspective, you do want your students to be able to communicate what they experienced, right?

Yes, and there are good ways to do it. Theses, presentations, and talking to your friends are all ways to try to keep it alive. You just have to work hard to find people who have a genuine interest.

乐播传媒 does a good job at giving students a serious chance to communicate their abroad experiences, whether formally through thesis and coursework or informally through continued get-togethers between faculty and students. Until the students on the trip all graduated, we had dinner once a month, if only so they could say, 鈥淲ow, remember when we did that?鈥�

We talk about purposeful work at 乐播传媒. An anthropological experience like this can inspire you to commit yourself long-term to helping people understand Islam or helping people understand the Near East or working for peace in the Near East. And several students on the trip have done so.

How does the book reflect what it was like watching your students experience Saudi Arabia?

That was a struggle because I didn鈥檛 want it to be a book about 鈥淥ur Trip to Saudi Arabia,鈥� or 鈥渢his is what it鈥檚 like to travel with a group of students to Saudi Arabia.鈥� I had no desire to write that kind of book.

But the last chapter, 鈥淲ho Can Go to Mecca?鈥� has a section about a dilemma that arose during the trip.

We had met Dr. Sami Angawi, an inspiring religious leader. I think of him as a Muslim Quaker or a Muslim Unitarian Universalist, a concept I didn鈥檛 think could exist, but I was wrong. He told me that he鈥檇 be happy to arrange for me to visit Mecca. I said that I wasn鈥檛 a Muslim. He said, 鈥淭hat鈥檚 between you and God. If you鈥檇 like to go to Mecca, I can arrange it.鈥� I said, 鈥淭hank you but I don鈥檛 think that would be appropriate.鈥�

But some of the students saw him the next day. Afterward they told me that they were going to go to Mecca.

I said, 鈥淏ut you鈥檙e not Muslim.鈥� They said, 鈥淭hat doesn鈥檛 matter.鈥� I said, 鈥淥h, yes, it does,鈥� and they said that Dr. Angawi was going to arrange it.

It turned out that they were planning to go to the Islamic Education Foundation in Jeddah and sign a statement that would make it possible for them to go to Mecca. I asked about the statement, which, it turned out, was the Shahada, the Muslim declaration of faith: 鈥淭here is no God but God, and Muhammad is his messenger.鈥�

I had individual meetings with two of the three and said, 鈥淎re you really going to convert to Islam?鈥�

So I said, 鈥淵ou鈥檙e going to convert to Islam?鈥� No, they told me. 鈥淲e鈥檙e just going to say that and then go to Mecca. I said, 鈥淲ell, you are going to convert to Islam. Do you really want to convert to Islam?鈥�

I asked our hosts, and I asked people at 乐播传媒: 鈥淲hat should I do?鈥� I was responsible for their safety. I didn鈥檛 feel I could just say to them, 鈥淵ou can鈥檛 convert to Islam.鈥� But I wanted them to know that was what they were doing. So I had individual meetings with two of the three and said, 鈥淎re you really going to convert to Islam?鈥� The details are in the book, but it was really uncomfortable and painful and awkward, and they were angry at me.

Ultimately, I didn鈥檛 say, 鈥淵ou can鈥檛 go.鈥� I said, 鈥淚f you do this you鈥檙e converting to Islam, at least as I understand it.鈥� And I said that if they went to Mecca and missed the plane 鈥� this was the last day of the trip 鈥� they were on their own. In the end, for a combination of reasons, they didn鈥檛 go.

To me that was really interesting. I was taking a harder line than Dr. Angawi鈥檚 more inclusive approach. I was defending the Saudi government鈥檚 position that only Muslims can go to Mecca, which is a position I don鈥檛 agree with individually.

When you challenged the students, were you challenging them as their teacher, as a researcher, as the leader of a 乐播传媒 contingent in country?

Not as a researcher, no. It was as a teacher in the broadest sense, and as a 乐播传媒 official in a narrower sense. I didn鈥檛 want an article in The New York Times about some 乐播传媒 students arrested for going to Mecca.

What I was more focused on, and what I was taking really seriously, was what the right thing to do was morally. And I had a firm belief that from my perspective it was morally wrong for them to go to Mecca.

As a teacher, are you teaching morals?

I was teaching the issues that came out of that dilemma, which were directly related to the question of what it means to convert.

As a teacher and 乐播传媒 official, I decided that it was not my position to forbid them from converting to Islam. But I wanted them to know that in my opinion they were really converting to Islam. They needed to think seriously about it, and if they wanted to read and study the Qur鈥檃n for a couple years, then convert, and then go to Mecca, that made perfect sense.

But if they want to go to Mecca now because they think they might maybe think about becoming a Muslim 鈥� it just struck me as irresponsible.